Robert Barron | – Karl Marx and Millennials


Today, we discuss a recent article in Teen Vogue titled “Who is Karl Marx?”, which shows how many teens and teachers have begun dabbling in Marxism. There have been a slew of other articles noting the rise of millennials supporting socialism. Having done my masters work in philosophy on Karl Marx, I introduce this influential thinker and his main ideas, noting the problems the Catholic Church has with them.

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About The Author

Bishop Robert Barron These are brief and insightful commentaries on faith and culture by Catholic theologian and author Bishop Robert Barron. The videos complement his weekly sermons posted and podcasted at WordOnFire.org.

Comment (47)

  1. Bishop Baron seems very well read, but I noticed some problems in what he said. First and most importantly, he didn't actually give a fleshed out argument as to why collective ownership is bad using any moral axiom or scripture, he instead uses an appeal to authority through the statement of a previous pope (15:47). He briefly says something about how free exchange is important for our moral freedom but he ignores the aspects of Marxist analysis that show the ways in which markets restrict an individual's freedom.

    Secondly, he appears to ignore the idea that a person can advocate for Socialism through nonviolent means, and seems to imply that any violence in favor of reforming our social structures is not moral. While violence is bad, I would argue that it is sometimes necessary to uphold morality, and the principle of the Double Effect lines up with my evaluation. As for the assumption that Socialism can only be achieved through violence, is it impossible to fathom Socialist policies could be voted for peacefully in a well run democracy?

    Lastly, Baron asserts that you cannot be a Marxist and believe in God (15:19). This might be a bit of a nitpick, but if both people championing Socialist policies say they are Marxists and right-wing politicians conflate Socialism, Communism, and Marxism in policy terms, then clearly the discourse has determined that the economic parts of Marx's philosophy are the parts that make someone a Marxist. If nothing else, the English language already has a word for the religious aspect of Marxist philosophy in isolation (atheism), so for the sake of clarity there should be a word to discuss the economic side of Marxist philosophy in isolation (Communism or Socialism).

    I understand there is a time limit with this segment, but I would've preferred it if Bishop Baron defended his position stronger and more thoroughly.

  2. US has more homeless people than Sweden, in relation to each country’s total population. US is capitalist, Sweden is socialdemocratic.

    I want Christian Conservative Liberal Social Democracy.

  3. Marx lacked quantitative analysis. Marx thought technology had reached it pinnacle. He misread the track of a free market economy. There is absolutely no value in anything from Marx. Nothing of value absolutely nothing. I've read him and I completely reject everything of Marx.

  4. Bishop Baron, I know perhaps my comment will not be seen, but I would like to know what the catholic church thinks about ''Anarchism'' specifically anarcho-communism, or mutualism and individualist anarchism. Especially christian anarchism such as followed by Dorothy Day and Leo Tosltoy, who didn't believe in class struggle, but believed in non-violence resistance.

  5. Thank You bishop Barron. I like how explained the Church's position in regards to Marxism. It's one of the dangers we encounter. I usually say there is a danger of two extremes. You explained the dangers not only of Marxism but also in our own market economy when it comes to greed. You highlight the benefits of a Market economy and at the same time point out the dangers. We should read about the Church's social teaching so we don't get caught up flawed philosophies
    .

  6. Seizing the means is not really any different from a capitalist monopoly type overlord, except that it’s the government so they can legislate their own rules as well.
    A market economy which answers to democratically appointed government which serves the people’s well-being

  7. How on earth can you reconcile the sermon on the mount with the foundations of neoclassical economic theory? Marx was a flawed character, but a more complicated one than painted here. Marx' critique of religion can be read as a critique of idolatrous tendencies in theology. You could say the Jewish prophetic tradition had this same ambivalence. But again, how can the kingdom of God be realized on earth in anyway but by a world that functions "from each according to their ability, to each according to their need"? Mainstream economic structures result in privatizing ethics because it creates a gap between personal values (sermon on the mount in our private lives) and pubic/economic values (rational self interest). The biggest flaw is the tendency toward violence, but again, that's because of a privation in Marx' thought. I think Christians can learn from a non-Christian, just as they have from Aristotle. A christianized Marx allows for the further breakdown of the social distinctions that protect us from violence. As someone who studies Girard, I wonder why Bishop Barron did not make this connection. All said, I still have the utmost respect for him.

  8. It's a shame that the video doesn't address the essence of Karl Marx's analysis of the way capitalism functions (exploitation in the form of owners appropriating surplus value from workers). It's also dubious to suggest that living through a period entails a genuine understanding of that period.

  9. I wish my husband, a historian and debater personified, we're alive to hear your talks and to know you, Bishop Barron. He loved to argue. In on of Don's obituaries a colleague said, "He would argue you into a corner until he knew he had you."

  10. Bishop Robert Barron is reminiscent of Cardinal Fulton Sheen and Apostle Paul….. Although my first degree in Catholic Theology, I find myself discovering nuances on both the Social Doctrine of the Church as well as on Systematic Theology…..

  11. Why are so many Millennials open to Marx? 1) They're desperately searching for an ideology to believe in. 2) Capitalism has come to mean little more than indentured servitude in the form of low wages and student debt for many of them. 3) Ignorance of history and "1984"

  12. Anyone who reads Marx should then study the history of its implementation.

    The problem with the far Left's quest for justice is they conduct it without temperance or wisdom fueled a Marcusean asymmetrical tolerance.

    I will admit that one of the reasons why I am curious about Catholicism is its anti-Marxist stance. We have seen time and time again when Marxist ideology is implemented the result isn't Justice but revenge followed by dictatorial oppression. I have a vested interest promoting the cultural hegemony that has, thus far, prevented the rise of Communism in advanced Western industrial nations as my family and I would likely fall victim to the wave of revenge. Serendipitously, I was drawn to St. Joseph as a father not knowing that he is also the Patron Saint of Workers. I think it would be beautiful to see counter-Mayday protests of people praying the rosary under the protection of St. Joseph.

    Anyways, thank you for the video.

  13. Marx did not like clergymen or institutionalized religion. He describes religion as a drug but the entire quote also points out that religion is an expression of morality for people. Hes certainly not pro-religion and he was a fervent athiest but you can certainly be a Marxist and believe in God. Karl Marx is not a prophet, he is an intellectual leader. One can disagree with some of his stances and still agree with his assessment of capitalism. I have met many religious Marxists from different religions and there are certainly many parts of the Bible that mirror the same sentiments. There are many impoverished Christians and I do not see as much fault in an ideology that wishes to analyze and critique a system based on "money-changing". Also, the militant atheism of Leninism was clearly a failure. Most Marxists now dont agree with the practice of shutting down houses of worship even though Castro did it and China still does.

    Also Pol Pot was funded by the US to aggravate Vietnam and thats not classified. Many Christians were killed and displaced because of the Cambodian Genocide and according to US officials, our military support for the Khmer Rough was "pivotal" in keeping it alive in the 80s. This is similar to our support of Islamist organizations to fight the Soviet Union. Many of those radical organizations then kill Christians too. The US supported organizations that now kill Christians in order to fight communists in Cold War I. I think it would be a lot better if one was to realize that there Christians on the other side. Rabid anti-communism leads to the death of Christians.

  14. Think about this: It is very easy to know what is the proposal of communism, but from reading the comments below it seems that no one understands what is the proposal of a free market system.

    (From wikipedia)
    The KEY TO UNDERSTAND a free market economy:
    The law of COMPARATIVE ADVANTAGE describes how, under free trade, an agent will produce more of and consume less of a good for which they have a comparative advantage (Wealth creation!). 
    Speaking of this law a physicist said: 'Name me one proposition in all of the social sciences which is both true and non-trivial.' This was the test that I always failed. But now, some thirty years later … an appropriate answer occurs to me: The Ricardian theory of COMPARATIVE ADVANTAGE… That it is logically true need not be argued before a mathematician; that it is not trivial is attested by the THOUSANDS of important and intelligent men who have never been able to grasp the doctrine for themselves or to believe it after it was explained to them."

    That is why most rational people who advocate a free market system do not want to completely dispense with government regulations, as they are necessary to maintain the conditions that allow market players to make correct decisions. That is why many of those who try to make an equivalence between monopolies and a free market system do not really understand what a "capitalist" is proposing. A real "capitalist" it is for antitrust laws, as the story of USA has shown.

  15. Mayor movimiento social de los últimos 200 años
    Hegel: síntesis entre dos tesis que entran en conflicto
    Marx lo lleva al conflicto entre clases. Dialectical materialism
    Brutal capitalism. Rev Ind. Origina puro comunismo
    Freedom, creativity lost. Alienation in capitalism

  16. Marx's poetry:

    Heaven I would comprehend
    I would draw the world to me;
    Living, hating, I intend
    That my star shine brilliantly …

    . . .

    … Worlds I would destroy forever,
    Since I can create no world;
    Since my call they notice never …

    . . .

    Then I will be able to walk triumphantly,
    Like a god, through the ruins of their kingdom.
    Every word of mine is fire and action.
    My breast is equal to that of the Creator.
    . . .
    And in his poem "Invocation of One in Despair" Marx writes,

    I shall build my throne high overhead
    Cold, tremendous shall its summit be.
    For its bulwark — superstitious dread
    For its marshal — blackest agony.2

    The Satan theme is most explicitly set forth in Marx's "The Fiddler," dedicated to his father:

    See this sword?
    the prince of darkness
    Sold it to me.

    . . .

    With Satan I have struck my deal,
    He chalks the signs, beats time for me
    I play the death march fast and free.

    Forgive me for saying so, but what a damned dog.

  17. This guy misses the point all those restraints of capitalism that John Paul the 2 agree with if it wasn't for the leftist throughout history we would still be in industrial times in the beginning of capitalism, these people should kiss the feet of marx ,Lenin Castro che and others.

  18. Jesus descended to preach to the death to announce his victory against sin and death, and to confirm his judgement against those who opposed God and didn’t believed in Jesus, the Messiah, the son of God. To us, the leaving, only Jesus can save us from an eternal condemnation if we put our faith in Him. There is only one way, and Jesus is the only way.

  19. Comrades Marx and Engels envisioned a classless, moneyless, and stateless world; a world where there are no social classes, no currency, and no countries, all of those things gone forever.
    Is Bishop Barron saying it's wrong to have a world like that? Or does he disagree with Marxism because of how it views religion?

  20. "The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man – state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d’honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion.
    Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.
    The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.
    Criticism has plucked the imaginary flowers on the chain not in order that man shall continue to bear that chain without fantasy or consolation, but so that he shall throw off the chain and pluck the living flower. The criticism of religion disillusions man, so that he will think, act, and fashion his reality like a man who has discarded his illusions and regained his senses, so that he will move around himself as his own true Sun. Religion is only the illusory Sun which revolves around man as long as he does not revolve around himself."
    -Karl Marx

  21. Bishop Barron's deep knowledge on Marx is impressive. However, when he mentioned Mao together with other communist leaders as anti-religion, he made a mistake. A huge misunderstanding on Chinese communists is to think they are atheists or against religion. This is simply wrong. Mao himself was deeply interested in Buddhism and befriended with many Buddhist leaders in China. He wrote several articles on Buddhism. He also took strong interest in Islam. He did not invest much effort in understanding Christianity because, as many nationalists in China did, he observed that Christian priests, particularly Catholics, accompanied the European military in their invasion, conquering and occupation of China starting from the first Opium war. For many Chinese, Christianity was a part of the force that caused China the 100 years' national humiliation. Xi Jinping is even more openly pro-religion. He had in many occasions stated that Chinese culture are the combination of the spirits of Confucianism, Daoism, and Buddhism. The Chinese Communist party's policy against some churches are due to their intolerance of any organized institutions that may threaten their power, not anything anti-religion.

  22. Oddly enough, there’s a work that I would reference to best describe the end result of Communism.

    George Fitzhugh’s Cannibals, All! and Sociology of the South best characterize the end result of socialism as communism because George Fitzhugh argues that the best and most true form of Socialism is slavery.

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